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Tuesday, May 23, 2006

Pat's Back At It...

Patrobertson[AP]  VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. - In another in a series of notable pronouncements, religious broadcaster Pat Robertson says God told him storms and possibly a tsunami will hit America's coastline this year.

Robertson has made the predictions at least four times in the past two weeks on his news-and-talk television show "The 700 Club" on the Christian Broadcasting Network, which he founded.

Robertson said the revelations about this year's weather came to him during his annual personal prayer retreat in January.

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May 23, 2006 in Current Affairs | Permalink

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God told him that POSSIBLY a tsunami would hit American shores?....as in God doesn't know? Oh well I guess I'll go put my trust into a god who is REALLY omnicient

Posted by: Andrew | May 23, 2006 11:23:02 AM

Is he the same guy that said that because of the evils in Washington D.C. that God struck New Orleans with the hurricane? Talk about a bad aim! My God can hit the city he is aiming at!

Why does anyone listen to this guy?

Posted by: Kent | May 23, 2006 11:56:44 AM

I wonder why he didn't add to the drama and say it would happen on 06-06-06.

If God still speaks audibly to man today, the person should be considered a prophet (one who delivers the message from God to the People) and every Word should be written down and considered Scripture.

Thank God Jesus is our Prophet Priest and King and has given us the Final Revelation where no man can add to or take away.

I think Pat should stop drinking his shakes before he goes to bed, there giving him strange dreams.

Even if Tsunami does hit, God doesn't speak audibly to man today.

Posted by: BeHim | May 23, 2006 11:59:05 AM

One of my professors is fond of saying, "If God speaks to you outside of the Bible, that's private conversation. Keep it to yourself."

Pat's just fortunate to have been born in the 20th century. They used to stone false prophets.

Posted by: chris | May 23, 2006 12:08:18 PM

Jay Leno, (whom I believe is emergent) rode PR last night in his monologue... the "quote" was... "if I heard The Lord correctly..." And Leno's response was... something like... HELLO ! It's the Lord, pay attention!

I believe the prophecy might come true that "there is a chance that a storm might hit somewhere along a coast.... maybe."

Posted by: Jeff | May 23, 2006 12:18:31 PM

What Pat can do is pray that it won't happen and then claim that God answers his prayers.

Posted by: Bart | May 23, 2006 12:19:23 PM

I wouldn't say that God doesn't speak audibly. And I wouldn't say that God always spoke audibly in the past. There seems to be some continuity between past and present, in my mind (and audible voices seem like rarities on both sides). I think Pat is correct--bad storms will probably hit the U.S. coast this year. 5 or 6 according to meteorologists, I believe. My question is, what's the point of this revelation? My (limited) understanding is that when God (as portrayed in the OT) said "I'm going to wipe out so and so [usually because of their wickedness]", it wasn't just a prediction of the future, but rather it was an invitation to change. So who's being wicked and how should they change? The entire East Coast!!!?? The Ninevites got their message and it worked. What message is Pat trying to convey? I think he should be more specific.
I also think we live in a world where storms happen.
My two cents.

Posted by: Daniel | May 23, 2006 12:37:48 PM

First: PAT ROBERTSON is an embarrassment to the rest of Biblical Christianity, every time he opens his mouth. Sadly so.

Second: Read Jack Deere's terrific books, "Surprised by the Power of the Spirit" and "Surprised by the Voice of God"--both by Zondervan.

And thirdly: Yes, God does still speak. If you are a Christian, it's because the Holy Spirit spoke clearly to your heart. And you heard Him.

Posted by: Phil Hoover-Chicago | May 23, 2006 12:50:15 PM

Every time Pat opens his mouth half a dozen people e-mail me links to articles or print them out and leave them on my desk. Their unbelieving way of saying “See, that’s why I’m not a Christian / don’t believe in Christianity”.

Now, I’d like to refrain from calling any Christian leader a lunatic (I’d like to, but I usually don’t hold back), but how do you talk to people who are scared away from Christianity by the intolerance and hypocrisy they perceive from the Robertsons, Swaggerts, Phelps’, and such?

I don’t know how many times I’ve started talking to someone about Jesus Christ or church and had them say something like “Oh, you Christians scare me, with your intolerance/bigotry/hypocrisy/holier-then-thou attitudes, etc”, and I know they’re not talking about me but they’re just lumping all Christians together with the ones who make the headlines. At least I hope they’re not talking about me. How do you try to combat the negative stereotypes some people have?

Posted by: DanielR | May 23, 2006 2:06:57 PM

Touche, Daniel. The fact that people like Pat have the most visibility does make it difficult for the average person to have a normal conversation about Christianity. It takes a certain kind of in-the-moment discernment to be able to say things that aren't blocked out. There are certain words that trigger a kind of mental freeze-up in non-Christians. Of course, pastors know that the same is true of church-goers... words like 'discipleship' and 'community' can cause a similar glazing-over of the eyes... if not a more violent reaction.

Posted by: DanielF | May 23, 2006 2:38:31 PM

[I wouldn't say that God doesn't speak audibly. And I wouldn't say that God always spoke audibly in the past. There seems to be some continuity between past and present, in my mind (and audible voices seem like rarities on both sides).

Second: Read Jack Deere's terrific books, "Surprised by the Power of the Spirit" and "Surprised by the Voice of God"--both by Zondervan.

And thirdly: Yes, God does still speak. If you are a Christian, it's because the Holy Spirit spoke clearly to your heart. And you heard Him.]

What is a prophet? The person chosen by God to deliver The Message (Word of God) to His People. When God would speak to the People, he would do so through the Prophet.

Are there prophets today? Is it important? It's VERY important! Why? Because anyone (ALL) people could claim to "hear" from God AND we are to keep track of every word of that person BECAUSE his words are from God and becoming Scripture. Isn't that what the Old Testament is? A recorded record of God's communication to man.

God does not speak outside of His Word. The Holy Spirit bears witness to the Word and THE WORD is what we use to "test the spirits". God does not speak audibly to mankind today. Hebrews 1

[I don’t know how many times I’ve started talking to someone about Jesus Christ or church and had them say something like “Oh, you Christians scare me, with your intolerance/bigotry/hypocrisy/holier-then-thou attitudes, etc”, and I know they’re not talking about me but they’re just lumping all Christians together with the ones who make the headlines. At least I hope they’re not talking about me. How do you try to combat the negative stereotypes some people have?]

First off DanielR note that they too are intolerant, bigots, hypocrits and possess "attitudes" (btw... intolerant and bigot are the same).

Are you a hypocrit DanielR? Do you ever teach how to be or what to do and then not be or do it?

In our natural man we are all hypocrits... The Christian's DESIRE is to be more Christlike: Holy/Pure/Sin LESS. The unbeliever only desires to make himself look/feel better to himself and others.

You ask, How do you combat the negative stereotypes some people have? Here's how:

They are not a Christian because of these men, they are not Christians because they hate God and His Word. These men (Robertson, Swaggert, Phelps, or you/I, etc) are not the standard for Salvation. Many will use these men to justify their own self desires, but no matter the excuse, the standards men use will never bring them to Salvation from hell.

They can use Robertson, Swaggert, phelps and even you and I as an excuse but what does Scripture say? they are without excuse.

We can never conform to their image of tolerance because they expect us to accept them for who and what they are. I can do that as a person, relating to their fallen nature but I cannot lie to them that God will not accept them for who and what they are. Because I represent this worldview they consider me intolerant and hateful because God is Just.

Posted by: BeHim | May 23, 2006 2:41:49 PM

THERE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A "NOT" OOPS... should read like this:

but I cannot lie to them that God will accept them for who and what they are.

Because I represent this worldview they consider me intolerant and hateful because God is Just.

Posted by: BeHim | May 23, 2006 2:46:27 PM

Man, what a downer. You just have a way about you BeHim.

Todd

Posted by: Todd Rhoades | May 23, 2006 2:47:00 PM

I believe that there are people who are not open to Christ (or hate God and His word, as BeHim says), but I don't believe that everyone who is not a Christian hates God. That's ridiculous. It's not that black and white. There are vast numbers of people who are not Christians because we haven’t reached them yet. Jesus is waiting, but we (Christians) just haven’t reached them for Him yet.

Many of these people have a negative view of Christianity, because of the negatives being emphasized in the mass media and the truth not reaching them yet, maybe because they are resistant or just aren’t listening. But it’s not because all of them hate God, I believe most unbelievers don’t know God. If they did know God, how could they not love Him? So, how do we reach out to people who may be open to Christ if we can get thru all the negatives they’ve been exposed to? Especially when the negatives continue to pile on?

Posted by: DanielR | May 23, 2006 3:16:15 PM

You have to give Pat one thing, he does generate a lot of opinions

Posted by: Kent | May 23, 2006 3:29:44 PM

Remember BeHim - liberty in all things non-essential. Everyone here does not share your dispensational theology.

Who’s the guy from Florida with the big, booming voice that used to be on the radio? Steve something???

I love the answer he gave one time regarding how God communicates with His creation today. Someone had submitted a question on this subject that started with the words “Does God . . .”, to which he responded “I refuse to answer any question that begins with the words ‘does God’ because I happen to believe God does as He pleases throughout time and history – regardless of what we think ”

In response to Daniel BeHim writes: they too [those who stereotype Christians as such] are intolerant, bigots, hypocrites and possess "attitudes."

My opinion is this: since “they” are lost as well as intolerant, bigoted, hypocritical people, we should expect such behavior from them and offer grace in return. Shouldn't it be Christians who take the high road? Something Jesus said about loving our enemies . . .

I don’t see this attitude from the Robinsons, Phelps’ and Swaggerts of the world, and far too often I don’t see it when I look in the mirror.

Wendi

Posted by: Wendi | May 23, 2006 3:41:48 PM

Wendi mentioned that man in FL with a big, booming voice: That is Steve Brown, Key Life Radio keylife.org (and one of the nicest, kindest people on the planet).

Posted by: MusicMan | May 23, 2006 3:54:36 PM

I used to consider the Robertsons of the world the typical Christians, flinging damnation at anyone who didn't believe what they believed.

I still believe that is true to a great extent, because make no mistake, these people have a scriptural basis for what they say, as revealed by God. They will never be convinced they are wrong, because God has told them they are right. Pat just happens to be better at getting press.

Evangelism has been highjacked by the far right to the extent that many Americans, unchurched would-be Christians, consider all Christians to be intolerant conservatives who like war, hate the environment, believe that poor people are that way because it's their own fault, take secret pride in knowing other religions (or other Christian denominations) are destined for Hell, and so on.

I know I did, before God came into my life in a very powerful way. I grew up in a very fundamentalist environment, an exclusionary environment focused on fear, and as a result I ignored God for over 30 years. I wouldn't let my daughter even be around 'hard-core' Christians, because I wanted her trained to love, not hate.

Then I saw the light and learned that Jesus' core message was love. But as a liberal Christian, I'm in a minority. And that's OK. Jesus was counter-cultural, too.

Flame me if you want!

Posted by: Roland | May 23, 2006 3:59:29 PM

Hey,

At least he didn't get the message delivered by a 900 ft. Jesus! Does God speak to people today? yeah, I think so, I'm not nearly as sure that He speaks to Pat, though...

Posted by: Peter Hamm | May 23, 2006 4:25:56 PM

[I believe that there are people who are not open to Christ (or hate God and His word, as BeHim says), but I don't believe that everyone who is not a Christian hates God. That's ridiculous. It's not that black and white. There are vast numbers of people who are not Christians because we haven’t reached them yet. Jesus is waiting, but we (Christians) just haven’t reached them for Him yet.]

What does Scripture say: 1 Corinthians 1:21, Romans 8:7, Ephesians 2:3, Luke 19:27, James 4:4

[Remember BeHim - liberty in all things non-essential. Everyone here does not share your dispensational theology.]

If the essentials are in error (liberal) it is highly likely the "non-essentials" will be too.

Surely your not considering me a dispensationalist. The Theology I embrace is Reformed Covenantal and Systematic in approach (Berkhoff/Sproel) and my apologetic is presuppositional (Van Til/Bahnsen).

[Does God speak to people today? yeah, I think so, I'm not nearly as sure that He speaks to Pat, though...]

God speaks today is the same position the Pope, Joseph Smith and Charles T. Russell would embrace... Do you embrace this belief as well?

Do you believe the Pope is our represantative? Our Prophet? Represents us to God and God to us.

Do you believe The Mormon Church has a man who hears from God and gives instruction for the church once a year?

Did Charles Taze Russell hear from God through an Angel?

If you say no, why not? {because it doesn't agree with Scripture.} Neither does Pat's message but he'll use Scripture to defend it. So would millions of others defend their belief that God does speak to us today.

God does not speak audibly to man today. There is but One Representative between God and man, Jesus!

Why does this matter? Because when the belief that God speaks audibly to man is embraced, you have all manner of false prophets and false prophesies (the "negatives"). Of which you will openly complain about, yet, you hold to the same belief as they do.

God HAS Spoke and His Communication is Complete: The Holy Spirit illuminates His Word and proclaims it BUT that is where it ends. Adding to this is to ad to God's Word.

What does Scripture say:
Daniel 9:24 and Hebrews 1:1 speak directly to this misunderstanding and dangerous belief.

[Man, what a downer. You just have a way about you BeHim.]

Happy, happy! Joy, joy! Is that better :-)

Man Todd, I'm only trying to hold to Truth. Not as I see it, as it IS. Most of this stuff is Theology 101.

I know you'll say we're not here to discuss theology... then why bust on Pat Robertson... it's just his view of God.

If you say it is wrong. Why? Why is wrong for Pat to say that? Because it doesn't "feel" right or disagrees with you? What standard do we use to say Pat is wrong or I am wrong or you or wrong?

Posted by: BeHim | May 23, 2006 5:12:18 PM

Thanks, for holding us all accountable BeHim; but I doubt you'll take too many takers.

Again, it's more your confrontational style than what you way sometimes that turns people off.

And you're right... this isn't a theology blog; and theology 101 to you is debateable theology to many of the rest of the world (including some great theologians who differ on a wide range of things).

I really do admire your stand for truth. But the debate on topics like this would be better on a different board. Sorry.

Sometimes I post somthing more for informational value than theological/debate value. This was one of these.

Todd

Posted by: Todd Rhoades | May 23, 2006 5:20:08 PM

I believe that God speaks to us. He speaks to us through his Word, Prayer, and other people. So I will not say anything bad about Pat at. But I will say this.

It's true that I am a Southern Baptist and I pick at them qutie often. But I do believe in the Spiritual Gifts. However, I do believe that God does give the gift of Prophecy to some. But this gift is for and should be use to edify the church.

I believe that we should mark a man's words to see if it is really from God or are they just man's words. If God told him, then God will bring it to past. Because after all hasn't God always keep His promise and His word to us.

Posted by: Jeff Ruble | May 23, 2006 8:09:34 PM

Another reason church leaders should REALLY studydown (buckle down and study hard) on Prophets and Prophecies and to know for sure that God does NOT speak audibly to us today (Theology 101).

READ THE ARTICLE:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/05/24/kids.tossed.ap/index.html

Posted by: BeHim | May 24, 2006 4:14:29 PM

sorry... I hit return to soon...

Why wouldn't we spend the time to make sure about this? Is it not important? The Mormon and Jehovas are with us today because of such laziness.

Don't think Pat and this lady and those who embrace this belief won't use the same arguement and Scripture verses to
justify the belief. It's the same arguement across the board!

It's ruining The Faith and leading people (AWAY FROM CHRIST) astray in droves!!!

Posted by: BeHim | May 24, 2006 4:18:32 PM

BeHim -

I don't think that we have the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses because they claim God speaks audibly (even if they do - I've not paid much attention to them). I think these cults exist as cults (to the orthodox Christian) because they claim God said something (audibly or otherwise) that doesn't square with scripture, which is something God would not do.

There are just not that many people around today (that I’ve heard) claiming to have heard an audible voice from God – until, I guess, our brother Pat. There are lots of things that keep people from Christ, but I don’t think claims of "national prophets" to have heard from God is ruining our faith and leading people away in droves. On the contrary, maybe Pat’s ranting about a Tsunami will cause genuine seekers to scratch their heads and ask a Christian friend “what’s up with that guy?” I’d like someone to ask me that question.

Wendi

Posted by: Wendi | May 24, 2006 7:49:20 PM

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